@Will you watch the new Duggar documentary?

[SusanBAnthony]

I watched the show a few times - probably 5 episodes total, between 1995-2005 (I don't know when it aired exactly).

My takeaway from a handful of episodes was that they were nutter religious people but not any abuse.

I only became aware of the abuse side on this board. What I remember 20 years later is stuff like having 6 washing machines, and grocery shopping for 1000$ worth of gross casserole ingredients and pairing each older girl with a younger kid.

[icedcoffee]

Why the fuck isn’t Bill Gothard in jail?!?

[maudefindlay]

So glad they address the women's baby voices. They are third rank and voices should literally not be heard.

TWTWTW Beating babies and toddlers into submission. How can they see it, do it, say it out loud and think that is right?

Isn't it ironic that a documentary on these you must shelter the women and children folks is for 16 a d older?

[icedcoffee]

Also--how is no one at TLC a mandated reporter?!?! How could they just watch this abuse and remain silent? I know a lot of the abuse was behind the scenes, but surely there were staff who saw what was going on. They need legal reform.

[ESF]

Watched all four episodes last night.

There's a lot of people at TLC have blood on their hands.

The thing that made me absolutely wild though was when they played the clips of the interview that the two girls had done with Megan Kelly after Josh's abuse came to light in 2015. Hearing Jill talk about the context broke my heart. It was not surprising but still just awful to hear her say it. Megan Kelly can go to hell for providing that platform.

[pixy0stix]

I finished ep 1 last night. It felt like a recap of everything that was out already about the family and their religion.

[wanderingback]

Jun 5, 2023 8:28:29 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Also--how is no one at TLC a mandated reporter?!?! How could they just watch this abuse and remain silent? I know a lot of the abuse was behind the scenes, but surely there were staff who saw what was going on. They need legal reform.

Laws very by state slightly but does TLC hire anyone that’s profession falls under mandatory reporting guidelines?

I know for scripted shows they hire teachers for the kids, but since the Duggars were homeschooled I don’t see that being the case.

[mrsslocombe]

Jun 5, 2023 9:59:52 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Jun 5, 2023 8:28:29 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Also--how is no one at TLC a mandated reporter?!?! How could they just watch this abuse and remain silent? I know a lot of the abuse was behind the scenes, but surely there were staff who saw what was going on. They need legal reform.

Laws very by state slightly but does TLC hire anyone that’s profession falls under mandatory reporting guidelines?

I know for scripted shows they hire teachers for the kids, but since the Duggars were homeschooled I don’t see that being the case.

I have not worked on any Duggar show, or with that production company but...

Generally, no. 

Also reality productions generally do not follow child labor standards that are set for scripted productions. Working hours limitations, teachers on set, etc. Now, shows like Master Chef Jr. that have large underage casts do follow much more strict guidelines, have teachers on set, etc vs a Housewife style show where the kids are shooting 1 or 2 days here and there. 

I have worked on two shows that had therapists doing mandatory weekly appointments with underage cast due to the sensitive nature of the material.

I haven't watched this doc yet but I'm curious how they word certain things. Reality cast contracts are almost always with the PRODUCTION COMPANY, not the network. So the 90 Day Fiancé cast contracts are with Sharp Ent, not TLC. Survivor cast it's with Mark Burnett Productions/whatever shell company they've created for that season, etc. The networks do this to shield themselves from liability. 

[wanderingback]

Jun 5, 2023 10:30:57 GMT -5 mrsslocombe said:

Jun 5, 2023 9:59:52 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Laws very by state slightly but does TLC hire anyone that’s profession falls under mandatory reporting guidelines?

I know for scripted shows they hire teachers for the kids, but since the Duggars were homeschooled I don’t see that being the case.

I have not worked on any Duggar show, or with that production company but...

Generally, no. 

Also reality productions generally do not follow child labor standards that are set for scripted productions. Working hours limitations, teachers on set, etc. Now, shows like Master Chef Jr. that have large underage casts do follow much more strict guidelines, have teachers on set, etc vs a Housewife style show where the kids are shooting 1 or 2 days here and there. 

I have worked on two shows that had therapists doing mandatory weekly appointments with underage cast due to the sensitive nature of the material.

I haven't watched this doc yet but I'm curious how they word certain things. Reality cast contracts are almost always with the PRODUCTION COMPANY, not the network. So the 90 Day Fiancé cast contracts are with Sharp Ent, not TLC. Survivor cast it's with Mark Burnett Productions/whatever shell company they've created for that season, etc. The networks do this to shield themselves from liability. 

Yes that’s what I thought! And yep re: production companies. Thanks for sharing.

[icedcoffee]

Jun 5, 2023 9:35:14 GMT -5 ESF said:

 Megan Kelly can go to hell for providing that platform.

Yes--wtf.  So many adults have failed the children in this cult.  It's not like this is one of those situations where the children are living in a basement somewhere.  This abuse is happening out in public.  ON TV.  

See something.  Say something.  

I'm also worried about this kids still living in that house.  Things have got to be tense there now. 

[picksthemusic]

We watched the first two episodes last night and intend to finish it tonight.

Like most everyone else, DH and I were looking at each other like WTF. All of it is so gross.

[mrshandy]

I watched it. It was awful everything those kids went through and are still going through. I didn't watch the show too much at the time. But I hope Jill sues the shit out of TLC. Jill references that JB signed contracts for them when they were no longer minors. That cannot be legal!

[msmerymac]

I've never watched the shows, because I don't want to support them, but I've read a ton about them, so I'm pretty knowledgeable. The first thing that felt off about them when I heard about this family with 15 (? at the time) kids was that they homeschooled, because... holy shit I'd want a break from at least some of the kids for part of the day, lol. Hey, turns out they just get the older kids to raise the younger ones, so no issue, right?

Then there's the weird stuff about the clothing, and the hairstyles, and the gendered chores, and the girls living at home until they get married and then not having careers once they have children, and... that's before we get to the CSAM and the molestation and the Ashley Madison stuff and the history of their religious cult and everything way more sinister.

Which is to say, I will absolutely watch this, but I'm shocked that people are shocked by what's in it. I think most people stopped thinking they're a wholesome family that should be emulated long ago.

[pixy0stix]

I finished the last episode, and it got real CEP there for a bit, talking about how the kids who grew up in this super fundie lifestyle are now firmly entrenched in the government, from the top of all 3 federal branches and on down. I know we've had a couple of discussions lately about how the christian fundamentalist movement is taking over the government. I think we need to revise that and start talking about how they are already in charge of the government.

[sugarbear1]

I never watched the show and knew very little about the family outside of whatever was on the tabloid covers in the checkout aisle.

I finished this morning and holy shit. These people are vile.

I did not know about Jim and Bobye Holt but she sure put on a brave face during filming. It's all tragic.

Where is Anna Duggar while Josh is in prison?

[pixy0stix]

Jun 5, 2023 14:00:57 GMT -5 sugarbear1 said:

Where is Anna Duggar while Josh is in prison?

With Jim Bob and Michelle in their compound.

[livinitup]

Jun 5, 2023 11:30:06 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Jun 5, 2023 9:35:14 GMT -5 ESF said:

 Megan Kelly can go to hell for providing that platform.

Yes--wtf.  So many adults have failed the children in this cult.  It's not like this is one of those situations where the children are living in a basement somewhere.  This abuse is happening out in public.  ON TV.  

See something.  Say something.  

I'm also worried about this kids still living in that house.  Things have got to be tense there now. 

Oddly, I was thinking about that today. I watched a bit when it was on cable when Michelle Duggar was pg with #17 (?) at the same time as me. So tweens and teens still in the house.

[sugarbear1]

Jun 5, 2023 14:02:14 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jun 5, 2023 14:00:57 GMT -5 sugarbear1 said:

Where is Anna Duggar while Josh is in prison?

With Jim Bob and Michelle in their compound.

NO WAY.
I mean, I'm surprised but not. What else is she going to do? I wonder if she sought help or insight from her own parents.

Also the Generation Joshua stuff is absolutely terrifying.

[pixy0stix]

Jun 5, 2023 14:07:39 GMT -5 sugarbear1 said:

Jun 5, 2023 14:02:14 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

With Jim Bob and Michelle in their compound.

NO WAY.
I mean, I'm surprised but not. What else is she going to do? I wonder if she sought help or insight from her own parents.

Also the Generation Joshua stuff is absolutely terrifying.

Her parents are deep in the religion. She has siblings outside the fundie life, and they've publicly called for her to divorce Josh. She hasn't taken any steps to remove herself, and has become even more firmly entrenched. She is in touch with her family, though. I looked it up and she has 7 kids with Josh.

[ECB]

I just finished.  Not surprising but SO disturbing.  

Old, narcissistic white men desperate for power are the true evil in this world. 

[Michelle]

I binge watched it before I saw this post...

[Michelle]

Jun 3, 2023 23:15:55 GMT -5 oregonpachey said:

I watched all four episodes and one thing (among many others) that turned my stomach was the "Joshua Generation" who are trying to get into positions in government so they can turn America into a Christian nation (white supremacy and misogynistic).

As soon as they started describing it I thought of recent elections and some former friends who are homeschoolers and have moved far extreme right (hence former friends). Sure 'nuff Madison Cawthorn was brought up.

Between this, the Netflix documentary The Family, and the wave of Mothers of Freedom or whatever the hell that group is shows how deep the pockets go on trying to make this a Christian White Nationalist nation.

[formerlyak]

Jun 5, 2023 11:30:06 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Jun 5, 2023 9:35:14 GMT -5 ESF said:

 Megan Kelly can go to hell for providing that platform.

Yes--wtf.  So many adults have failed the children in this cult.  It's not like this is one of those situations where the children are living in a basement somewhere.  This abuse is happening out in public.  ON TV.  

See something.  Say something.  

I'm also worried about this kids still living in that house.  Things have got to be tense there now. 

The last episode addresses this a bit as some of the survivors and ex-members talk about why it was so hard to just "see something. say something."

[Deleted]

Jun 5, 2023 17:11:01 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

Jun 5, 2023 11:30:06 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Yes--wtf.  So many adults have failed the children in this cult.  It's not like this is one of those situations where the children are living in a basement somewhere.  This abuse is happening out in public.  ON TV.  

See something.  Say something.  

I'm also worried about this kids still living in that house.  Things have got to be tense there now. 

The last episode addresses this a bit as some of the survivors and ex-members talk about why it was so hard to just "see something. say something."

Hard for people inside the religion probably, but shouldn’t have been hard for the producers/production crews or anyone else on set. Yes, maybe it was hidden, but I have a hard time believing Jim Bob and Michelle could have effectively hidden this level of abuse from 24/7 camera crews and I have a VERY easy time believing that the producers just turned a blind eye because the Duggars were their cash cow.

I hope Jill and Jessa and any of the other kids sue the shit out of TLC and the production company.

[wambam]

Jun 3, 2023 9:12:23 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

And where has wambam been? I feel like I haven’t seen her in a while and I know she found this stuff fascinating. I hope you are well!

Hi! I’ve popped in and out occasionally. I watched the doc this weekend and thought it was well done. I think it was an opportunity for Jill to set the record straight. Jinger’s book is an interest complement to it. She gets into the nitty gritty of Gothard’s teachings. But she’s coming at it from someone who is still very much a conservative Christian, just one that is more internally consistent.

I really appreciated all the stories from non-Duggar survivors.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Jun 5, 2023 14:07:39 GMT -5 sugarbear1 said:

Jun 5, 2023 14:02:14 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

With Jim Bob and Michelle in their compound.

NO WAY.
I mean, I'm surprised but not. What else is she going to do? I wonder if she sought help or insight from her own parents.

Also the Generation Joshua stuff is absolutely terrifying.

I don't know if she's known to be reliable/accurate or not, but in IG, withoutacrystalball has an interesting post on why Anna didn't leave.

TL;DR - she was going to, but JB is paying her $$ not to.

[fernweh]

Jun 5, 2023 19:25:40 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Jun 5, 2023 14:07:39 GMT -5 sugarbear1 said:

NO WAY.
I mean, I'm surprised but not. What else is she going to do? I wonder if she sought help or insight from her own parents.

Also the Generation Joshua stuff is absolutely terrifying.

I don't know if she's known to be reliable/accurate or not, but in IG, withoutacrystalball has an interesting post on why Anna didn't leave.

TL;DR - she was going to, but JB is paying her $$ not to.

That makes sense. I mean realistically she has no education and no work experience she isn’t going to find a job that will support 7 kids so if JB is footing the bill I can see why she stayed. It’s easy for her siblings to call for her to divorce but unless they are willing to take on the financial burden of 7 kids she probably feels like she has no choice.

[seeyalater52]

Jun 5, 2023 14:00:12 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I finished the last episode, and it got real CEP there for a bit, talking about how the kids who grew up in this super fundie lifestyle are now firmly entrenched in the government, from the top of all 3 federal branches and on down. I know we've had a couple of discussions lately about how the christian fundamentalist movement is taking over the government. I think we need to revise that and start talking about how they are already in charge of the government.

I was struck by the same thing as I was watching, and shocked at how un-shocked I was since I already knew the broad strokes and major players involved. It’s been sort of frustrating the past 2 years especially to have it become clear that SO many otherwise politically aware people display a terrifying ignorance of this information about Christian fundamentalism and the far right in the government and their role in limiting freedoms in this country. Alllll the contemporary stuff is 100% bound up in this tiny dangerous knot of influencers and they control an immense amount of the political discourse while most people have absolutely no idea what is going on.

The miniseries actually did a decent job connecting some of those threads without straying too far from the main subject and hopefully it will switch on some lightbulbs.

[seeyalater52]

Jun 5, 2023 16:39:03 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Jun 3, 2023 23:15:55 GMT -5 oregonpachey said:

I watched all four episodes and one thing (among many others) that turned my stomach was the "Joshua Generation" who are trying to get into positions in government so they can turn America into a Christian nation (white supremacy and misogynistic).

As soon as they started describing it I thought of recent elections and some former friends who are homeschoolers and have moved far extreme right (hence former friends). Sure 'nuff Madison Cawthorn was brought up.

Between this, the Netflix documentary The Family, and the wave of Mothers of Freedom or whatever the hell that group is shows how deep the pockets go on trying to make this a Christian White Nationalist nation.

I was just telling someone yesterday that Moms for Liberty is the carbon copy of One Million Moms from the 2000s. These people only have one playbook and every time they use it most of the country acts like it’s the first time they’ve ever seen such a thing. Most exhausting history ever.

[msmerymac]

Jun 4, 2023 14:27:04 GMT -5 klee23 said:

TW/@

wanderingback - like PP said, the criminal charges are unrelated to the molestation of his sisters + unnamed Jane doe (there was 1 unrelated victim). A homeland security raid of his computer found child sex abuse videos a few years ago. Comment sections at the time indicated that some videos may be flagged to help track who is searching or downloading them on the dark 'net. Anyway- the videos in question were referred to as the worst of the worst by investigators.

Some of this was mentioned briefly in episode 2 but a quick summary of the other stuff. The molestation occurred in early 2000's (pre-TV show). Five or so years later they were slated to go on Oprah but her staff received an anonymous tip which resulted in them reporting it to Arkansas CYS. There was an investigation, no charges. In 2015 a tabloid got a tip, had a FOIA request finding the earlier police reports that was improperly redacted*. Aside from public backlash there were no repercussions about the situation

*so says the duggar victims since they were identifiable

I thought it's because they identified 4 of the victims as living in the house/related to the perpetrator and there were only 5 girls at the time, so it wasn't hard to figure out.