TW: sexual assault and teens

[RitzyHeifer]

Story time, all names are fake but I know it’s easier to follow that way.

My son Steve is dating a girl, Phoebe. Phoebe is in a club sport with Jane and Rhonda. Phoebe and Jane are good friends, hang out at our house together with Steve, etc. I’ve never met Rhonda or her parents.

About a month ago Jane was at Rhonda’s house and Rhonda’s mom told Jane that Steve is a known rapist, cheats on Phoebe, drinks and does drugs. Mom told Jane she was telling her all this so that Jane can get Phoebe to break it off with Steve. The mom also pressed Jane for information asking if Jane knew any other dirt on Steve that he mom could send to Phoebe’s parents.

Steve didn’t tell me anything until this week because he was trying to just ignore it, but now Rhonda is spreading rumors about Phoebe and he wants to defend his girlfriend.

WTF do I do? If I knew the mom at all I would have a conversation with her, but I don’t know her or how to get hold of her.

[cjcouple]

How old are these kids?

[RitzyHeifer]

Oct 4, 2024 13:38:20 GMT -5 cjcouple said:

How old are these kids?

Teens - 16 and 17

[deadwing]

Some random parent is accusing your son of being a rapist? I don't know, but I feel like I'd want to consult with an attorney. That is a rumor I wouldn't take kindly to.

[momin2013]

Oct 4, 2024 13:39:01 GMT -5 deadwing said:

Some random parent is accusing your son of being a rapist? I don't know, but I feel like I'd want to consult with an attorney. That is a rumor I wouldn't take kindly to.

I’m here. A mom is saying this stuff? WTF?

[lavenderblue]

The way that my mouth dropped open that this is a grown ass woman talking about a child. I would find out her contact information and be having a CTJ talk with her at the very least but more than likely I'd be talking to an attorney because damn, that is effed.

[cjcouple]

ok, thanks.

Do you have proof of these allegations the mom is making? If so I'd definitely save it and document everything you/steve/phoebe hears.

Are they in the same school? If so, I'd get the counselor involved.

I'd invite Phoebe, Jane and their parents over for a discussion about these allegations. I would let them all know you will/are seeking out a lawyer for defamation. Even if you're not there yet.

This may or may not get back to Rhonda and her mom and freak them out enough to knock it off.

All of the teens should block Rhonda on all SM platforms/texting. Obviously you cannot control what Phoebe, Jane and their parents do.

Make sure Steve screenshots anything he sees come through.

If/when you have proof, a lawyer is a good next step if they keep spreading these rumors.



ETA: disclosure I've never dealt with anything like this but this is what my instincts say. Perhaps I am overreacting but IMO an accusation of being a rapist is no light matter.

[livinitup]

I believe you and I am in shock. I don’t even know where to begin. The mom? Jane? Rhonda? Why in the world would the mom invent this? Are we sure Jane is accurate with her retelling what the mom said about your son and her plans to smear him and break up this teenage couple? Is the daughter, Rhonda safe with a nut job of a mother? Is there an actual rape victim in this mess ? WHAT THE ACTUAL F*CK ??

This may sounds bananas but I’d pay good money for a full Private Investigator dossiers on the mom. I want to know where she works, if she has a record, even a parking ticket, current and past addresses/aliases. If I know nothing about the woman who is spreading lies that implicate my teenage son in a crime, I would want to know everything real quick.

I would do major documenting of anything/everything before I informed the mother that I knew she was saying my son is a criminal rapist. Even my own 1st person narrative of what I heard, from whom, and when. I’d pray my son would take it seriously enough to document anything spreading on social media.

What kind of lawyer do you even get for this kind of this?? JHC

[waverly]

I think I would verify accuracy of where the rumors came from. Could be from Rhonda herself and not her mom. Or maybe from Jane? A lot of general lawyers can write a cease and desist letter.

Could you talk to Pheobe's mom and then Pheobe's mom could possibly talk to the coach of the team sport (poor coach), but maybe the coach might have some insights in to the group dynamics of the 3 girls.  School counselor if they all go the same school? 

[midwestmama]

Say. what. now.

As a mom of a 15 yo teenage boy, I would be 10 shades of livid over some parent I don't know (and my son doesn't know) accusing my son of being a rapist, cheater, drug user, and drunk.

I am not a lawyer, but everything cjcouple suggested makes a lot of sense and would plan to do that. I would be up in that school on Monday morning, though, asking to talk to the counselor, if they all go to the same school.

ETA:  If you know any lawyers personally, maybe reach out to them this weekend.  If this were me, I would be on the phone with my cousin, stat.  She is a lawyer and works for a county prosecutor's office, and so does her husband (he's also a lawyer), and I would be asking her/them all the things I should do.  

[lust2hart]

This is really bizarre. I think I'd want to talk to Jane myself to hear directly from her what Rhonda's mom told her. And then I suppose the mature thing to do would be to contact Rhonda's mom and have a chat, but because I hate confrontation I'd probably try going the lawyer route instead. Perhaps you and Phoebe's parents could join forces to talk to Rhonda's mom (since she is now spreading rumors about Phoebe too).

ETA that since you say you'd be willing to talk to Rhonda's mom if you knew how to get a hold of her, talk to Jane.

[InBetweenDays]

I would ask Jane how I could get in touch with Rhonda's mom or I would Google stalk her myself to find her contact info. I would absolutely want to get to the bottom of where this rumor came from and why she feels ok spreading it. And as cjcouple suggested I would document everything first.

PDQ: poof

So. Again. I'm not in any way saying the rumors are true. But, as the mom of a 15 yo son and 18 yo daughter I'd want to get to the bottom of where, how, and why the rumor started before pursuing legal action. Because part of me would be worried that there is actually a victim and rapist out there and maybe somehow your son was wrongly identified. That wouldn't excuse Rhonda's mom spreading these kinds of rumors to kids rather than taking it to authorities if she was really concerned, but it would make me feel better about taking it seriously.

[RitzyHeifer]

Thanks for the feedback so far. The kids don’t all go to the same school - I’m pretty sure all 3 girls do, I know Phoebe and Jane do for sure. Steve’s school’s counselor would be useless in this situation (I know because we have had sticky situations before and the one time I tried to involve the school counselor it was… not great).

I’ll work my network and see if I can get in touch with the problem mom. That may be enough to get her to back off.

And yes, I’m worried there really has been a rape or sexual assault at the root of this rumor. It’s not first time it’s gone around with girls in this club sport (about my child and about other boys) but it’s the first time I know of it coming from a parent.

But also I must live in an area with some bored-ass moms because it’s not at all the first time I’ve heard of moms doing this type of thing. Just the first time my kid is the victim and the rumors are that vile.

[lust2hart]

Ugh, RitzyHeifer, that's disgusting. Sorry you have to deal with this.

[mcppalmbeach]

So my first move here is an honest talk with my kid. And it’s non accusatory, but I would tell him that if the accusations are completely baseless we need to get to the bottom of what’s happening so are you sexually active, have you used drugs, have you used alcohol? Basically is there any truth to any part of what’s being said. I need your full story before we go further. My second move would be with the girlfriend’s mom if you have any relationship with her at all. Like where are all these rumors coming from because of this sport in particular, what do you know about other girl’s mom,etc. Then I would go from there.

[cville]

You mean "parent accusing my child of a heinous crime."

W
T
F

[sonrisa]

How awful. I suggest adding a trigger warning here since the topic is teen rape.

You say this accusation already went around among the kids? It's so hard for women to be believed in these circumstances, especially girls. I can't help but start from InBetweenDay's position.

[sonrisa]

Oct 4, 2024 19:59:17 GMT -5 mcppalmbeach said:

So my first move here is an honest talk with my kid. And it’s non accusatory, but I would tell him that if the accusations are completely baseless we need to get to the bottom of what’s happening so are you sexually active, have you used drugs, have you used alcohol? Basically is there any truth to any part of what’s being said. I need your full story before we go further. 

I fully support open dialogue.

However you also can't expect a teenage boy to be forth coming on something like this. I'd be surprised if a boy (not your kid, OP, a hypothetical one) would admit to himself what happened was rape, let alone to his mother.

[RitzyHeifer]

Oct 4, 2024 19:59:17 GMT -5 mcppalmbeach said:

So my first move here is an honest talk with my kid. And it’s non accusatory, but I would tell him that if the accusations are completely baseless we need to get to the bottom of what’s happening so are you sexually active, have you used drugs, have you used alcohol? Basically is there any truth to any part of what’s being said. I need your full story before we go further. My second move would be with the girlfriend’s mom if you have any relationship with her at all. Like where are all these rumors coming from because of this sport in particular, what do you know about other girl’s mom,etc. Then I would go from there.

Appreciate this. We have very open and honest conversations about sex drugs and rock & roll (okay I’m being silly but I am aware of all of these things for him).

I got the heinous mom’s number from Phoebe's dad and texted asking for a phone call. She did agree to talk to me but was all stuttery stumbly saying she never told any one anything and it was months ago that “concerned parents” had called her because Rhonda & Phoebe are so close, and if I had a daughter I’d understand (spoiler bitch, I do have a daughter too).

So now I think I will wait and see if she pulls this crap again. 

[wildrice]

Just playing devils advocate - you are his mom and we are his mom's friends, so of course we assume this is baseless. But could there be something to it? I assume most moms of boys who do things like this would never expect their son to rape someone, but the truth is that many sons rape girls. Even ones whose parents do a great job with them and would never guess that their kid could do something like that. I hope this is truly just a case of this mother being insane and awful, but that is also pretty bizarre.

[gummybear]

We had a similar situation with a mother slandering our daughter with false/exaggerated sexual rumors, although your situation is worse bc it’s an actual criminal allegation. We basically went in burn it down mode and it was very successful.

I agree that you need to have a frank conversation with your son regarding what is being said. It may be difficult but the all the information needs to be aired. I don’t know that I recommend speaking with the problem mom. In my experience these types of people tend to be irrational and blind to fact and truth.

If you believe the counselor/school to be useless (I totally get it) and you have factual evidence of the mom or child spreading the rumors and they are provably false, I would recommend having an attorney look at everything. At the least you can get advice. I know from our experience in our state spreading things of a sexual nature in included in some laws that can protect your son. If you choose, a cease and desist letter can be a highly effective way to get things to stop.

[RitzyHeifer]

Oct 5, 2024 10:56:38 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Just playing devils advocate - you are his mom and we are his mom's friends, so of course we assume this is baseless. But could there be something to it? I assume most moms of boys who do things like this would never expect their son to rape someone, but the truth is that many sons rape girls. Even ones whose parents do a great job with them and would never guess that their kid could do something like that. I hope this is truly just a case of this mother being insane and awful, but that is also pretty bizarre.

It stems from something 2 years ago (when I talked to bully mom she said as much). Steve and several boys received unsolicited nudes from a much younger - and wealthier and more connected - girl. There’s a little more but I don’t want to air all this girl’s issues, however anonymously.  

All of those boys who are not also wealthy and connected in this community have since had a turn of being the target of accusations of assault. Around that same time, Steve got in some serious unrelated trouble at school so he has a bad reputation that he earned with a bad choice.

Of course I can’t know 100% that he has always sought enthusiastic consent before doing something sexual, but it is something I have talked about with him since middle school. 

[Bad Dingo]

I don't know you and so I'm coming at this from a random stranger on the internet angle. After the last follow up I'd be very worried about what all of these boys were doing and wary of any "boys will be boys" attitudes.

This is particularly concerning "yes, I’m worried there really has been a rape or sexual assault at the root of this rumor. It’s not first time it’s gone around with girls in this club sport (about my child and about other boys) but it’s the first time I know of it coming from a parent."

Eta- I'm so sorry you are dealing with this, it sounds really complicated.

[RitzyHeifer]

Sorry about the title, wanted to be clear and was using the TW recommended by another poster.

[RitzyHeifer]

Oct 5, 2024 12:04:23 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

I don't know you and so I'm coming at this from a random stranger on the internet angle. After the last follow up I'd be very worried about what all of these boys were doing and wary of any "boys will be boys" attitudes.

This is particularly concerning "yes, I’m worried there really has been a rape or sexual assault at the root of this rumor. It’s not first time it’s gone around with girls in this club sport (about my child and about other boys) but it’s the first time I know of it coming from a parent."

Eta- I'm so sorry you are dealing with this, it sounds really complicated.

I didn’t mean I know or had heard of anything specific, just saying I know it happens and how hard it is for women to be believed. After I talked to the problem mom, I realized it was from the nudes incident 2 years ago.

[cville]

Listen, I believe women. I am aware of the prevalence of sexual assault generally and specifically in high school.

But this isn't about believing women. This is about a grown person spreading rumors about a child allegedly committing a heinous crime against someone who is neither her nor her child.

If what she's saying is based on something real, spreading rumors about the perpetrator and victim is helpful to neither. If it is not, or if the incorrect people have been identified as either, it's reckless.

The advice to carefully interrogate her son, coordinate with known parents, and then consider how to approach rumor monger parent is good.

Advice to sue for slander is weird. Advice to go balls to the wall against the rumor mom is weird. Advice to treat this as if it is wholly unfounded is weird.

I don't read anything OP is saying here as a not my son/boys will be boys response. And I'm typically pretty sensitive to any such implications.

[InBetweenDays]

Oct 5, 2024 13:16:42 GMT -5 cville said:

But this isn't about believing women. This is about a grown person spreading rumors about a child allegedly committing a heinous crime against someone who is neither her nor her child.

If what she's saying is based on something real, spreading rumors about the perpetrator and victim is helpful to neither. If it is not, or if the incorrect people have been identified as either, it's reckless.

I absolutely agree. But for my friend and her daughter who feel like they have no recourse - I can't tell you how tempted they've been to have us spread the word so she doesn't feel silenced and he at least feels some ramifications.

[cville]

Oct 5, 2024 14:20:11 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Oct 5, 2024 13:16:42 GMT -5 cville said:

But this isn't about believing women. This is about a grown person spreading rumors about a child allegedly committing a heinous crime against someone who is neither her nor her child.

If what she's saying is based on something real, spreading rumors about the perpetrator and victim is helpful to neither. If it is not, or if the incorrect people have been identified as either, it's reckless.

I absolutely agree. But for my friend and her daughter who feel like they have no recourse - I can't tell you how tempted they've been to have us spread the word so she doesn't feel silenced and he at least feels some ramifications.

Of course. This is why I'm not anti gossip. It's frequently a way for those who do not have power to communicate for their own protection and self-interest.

I draw a distinction mentally because you all **know**, but understand that's not entirely relevant to this discussion. I have such empathy for your friend and especially your friend's daughter for being so unsure how to protect themselves and others, without turning that poor girl's life upside down.

[meanie]

Do the kids go to the same school? Sounds like maybe not but if they do I would go to the principal. If not, I would still want to report this somewhere - police?

Kids say all sorts of horrible things to and about each other, but the mom doing the same thing is really really concerning.

Maybe still go to your son's principal and report what was said. My husband taught for years and stuff that went on outside of school always made its way back to the teachers and administration.

[RitzyHeifer]

Possibly a surprise to no one but me, she did not back off and has escalated things

It was probably stupid of me, but I let Steve talk to problem mom on the phone yesterday- he wanted her to hear from him how hurtful this situation is. Problem mom then went straight to Phoebe’s mom. Now Phoebe says she needs to end things with Steve because her parents say it’s “a bad look” for her to be with a guy with these kinds of rumors swirling.

I’ve asked Phoebe’s parents if we can have a conversation in person tomorrow and we will see where that goes.