i have been to counseling in the past, yes. several times. i'm not interested in going right now. its too emotional and painful and i'm just not up for it.
and i don't want to go with my dad. i don't want to share anymore of how i feel about this part of my life with him. i have been very clear about my feelings, the ripple effect it has had on my life in almost every aspect of who i am, and what i expect and need from him. and he has made it abundantly clear with his actions that i am not a priority. speaking to a third party is not going to change that.
Several times is not enough. Not for an issue like this. You need to find a therapist you like and trust, first and foremost. And if you only want to focus on your current relationship with your father and how to cope/manage that, then that's fine too. Tell your therapist that and be firm. "I need help with X." You don't have to delve deep into the bowels of your memory and rehash every horrible thing that happened to you. But trust me, you will not be able to manage this on your own. You've tried, and it's not working.
And absolutely do not go with your dad at this point. Go alone. Work through it. As painful and as sucky as it might be, it's 10 times better than suffering through it on your own. That's clearly not working. Get validation and the tools you need from a professional. They are there for a reason.
I'm so sorry sara. While he is the nice dad you adore so much, he's being cruel when he does this to you. I'm sure you have already, but can you talk to somebody about this particular thing your dad does every year and how it leaves you feeling?
I am really sorry you are going through this. It is really hard when a parent disappoints you and isn't protecting you like they should. My brother and I recently came to accept that our mom isn't and never will be the mom we want or need her to be. It's heart wrenching to come to terms with that.
While our experience is in no way as awful as what you have been through, I understand where you are coming from. My mom has always made the men she has dated a priority over my brother and I. (Our father died when we were quite young.) Our step father was verbally and emotionally abusive to my brother and my mom turned a blind eye to this. They later divorced (for other reasons) and her relationships continue to be the most important factor in her life.
We used to make excuses for her (she was widowed young, she had been a care giver to our father for years while he was sick, etc.) but the older we got the more we realized that this was really unacceptable behavior for a parent and that we deserved better. We saw that this pattern she followed of always putting the men in her life before us would never change and this is just who she is.
As adults, we finally opened up to her about how much this hurt us and she was very defensive and in the end we requested that she give us a few months without contact. We were honestly considering cutting off contact with her but needed to test the waters. In our situation, we decided after those few months, that we would rather accept her flaws and still have her in our lives than never see or speak to her again.
It helped a lot that she ended up apologizing and to a degree seeing where we were coming from and where she had gone wrong. She and my brother also went to counseling together - I live out of the country and was not able to participate. It doesn't mean she has changed or will change but we have accepted that and are just more cautious of letting her too deeply into our lives. We keep her at a distance.
It doesn't sound like you are ready to cut off contact with your dad. Is it possible for you to take a break from him? A few months of no contact to help clear your mind and give you perspective?
I am always hesitant to say something so declarative, but I don't think your father could remain with his wife as she is and still maintain a respectful and compassionate relationship with you.
this is exactly what i have been so afraid of. i have given up so much to make this work. i have tried to bury the hurt my dad creates/perpetuates/causes/doesn't pay attention to about all of this for so long and it is exhausting.
and i hate the term unfair, but to bear all of these burdens is unfair. to not talk about when it bothers me is unfair. to have to avoid certain parts of my dad's home when i go there because i know i will see the rapists picture if unfair. to have to hear my dad's wife talk about the rapist is a favorable manner is unfair. to have to ask that the person who raped me not be a celebrated person in any capacity in my dad's life is fucking unfair.
UNFAIR is the perfect word. Having the trauma of rape and molestation is enough for a person to have to handle and learn to live with. Having to avoid constant reminders and continuing to see your dad dance around what happened to you is completely, 100% unfair.
You have tried so hard to look past this, if you can't do it anymore - I don't think anyone would blame you.
sara, i really don't have the words i need here. you deserve so much better than this. you are worth so much more than this. you are loved so much more than these actions show to you. you do not have to bend to make other people comfortable. they're asking you to bend until breaking. that is not only unfair, it's unkind.
everyone knows what happened, everyone knows how you feel, and everyone but you (and i presume michael) thinks that YOU need to work around it? that's bullshit. you know it's bullshit. no one else wants to admit it's bullshit because then they have to face the facts of their own hypocrisy, unkindness, and duplicity. they have to admit to themselves that the best option--standing up for you--is more difficult and will upset the apple cart, and that they reason they are not doing so is because they like being comfortable. this isn't just your father here, this is your sister, your stepmother, your extended family. and that doesn't make them evil, it makes them human and full of human frailty. but that doesn't mean you have to accept the status quo.
your children can have a relationship with your father without you being the facilitator. you can pull yourself out of it. you can refuse to go to his house. you can cease deep conversation with him. you can protect yourself, focus on your immediate family and your studies and yourself and just let michael be the person who fosters your sons' relationship with your father. people do that sort of thing all the time. and i'm sure michael would do that for you. he loves you and he will put you first.
Everyone has given you amazing advice, better than any words I could say myself. I'm so sorry you have to go through this. You're an amazing person who deserves to be loved and supported fully.
Sorry I keep coming back to type. I keep replying each time I want to say something instead of reading the whole post first.
My Dad and I cut ties and my siblings just had to suck it up. I tried to be considerate to them, they understood where I was coming from and tried to be considerate to me. It wasn't awesome, but it worked without it ever having an impact on our relationships.
When my Dad got very sick, I returned to 'dutiful daughter' status and did what I felt I was supposed to do. I'm glad it worked out that way and I was able to spend a few months talking to him and saying goodbye. That said - I don't regret the time that we were not on speaking terms and I wouldn't go back and change that decison (if all other circumstances were the same). The situation wasn't good for me and I was happier to not have a constant reminder that my dad was incapable of loving me the right way.
I just wanted to offer my internet stranger support and hugs. I'm so sorry that you are continually being hurt after everything you've already suffered.
While I don't pretend to understand what you must be feeling, I do know what it is like to want to avoid counseling. It's very hard to take that leap, especially when you've done it before. It can feel like you've already done what you could in counseling, or that it didn't help in the past so it won't help to try again. Still, when you are ready, I urge you to give it another try. If nothing else, you need validation from someone that your feelings matter. Your feelings are worthy of attention, validation, and protection. YOU are worthy of those things.
Post by saraandmichael on Mar 4, 2013 9:54:24 GMT -5
montereybride you sound exactly like my older sister. she very much feels that i need to respect and understand that he is supporting his wife. well, maybe not respect and understand. i don't know what her expectation is there, but that is the point she always hammers home to me.
i know that she is allowed to love her son. i know that she is allowed to have pictures of him in her home. and i have expressed as much to my dad about it when i asked about the picture last year. i did, however, say that if she chose to keep it up that i would not be allowing myself to hurt by coming over. the other photos of him in the house are in their bedroom, which i only walk into when e is in there and calls for me. its hard, but i do it. i do not, however, understand how my dad can see these images day after day after day and just be okay with it. i have tried to find reason there and i can't. and that pain and frustration has come surging back with a vengeance in the last week. this is just so unfathomable to me as a parent and i am trying to make sense of something senseless, yet i cannot stop thinking about it.
and while i logically know that i cannot make him choose me over his wife, i want him to. just once. just one time over something so big. and as a parent, i just cannot imagine that it even takes consideration to do. it just doesn't make sense to me at all. and maybe there were years where he didn't understand that i would view it that way, but i have spoken very bluntly about how it makes me feel. and when he asks 'what can i do?' and i tell him, in no uncertain terms, what i would like for him to do it just makes it worse. why would someone ask what they can do for you and not follow through? and not even someone, my dad. my parent. i mean, i am half of his dna for fucks sake. why aren't i worth the follow through here? why aren't i important enough? why is your wife worth more? and how can someone profess to love their child so much and then act this way? and then i am supposed to just bear the weight of that?
perhaps i'm not being rational or whole in my thoughts, but i just cannot see the world from your perspective on this. to me its a no brainer. your child comes first. am i that ridiculous for thinking that?
everyone knows what happened, everyone knows how you feel, and everyone but you (and i presume michael) thinks that YOU need to work around it? that's bullshit. you know it's bullshit. no one else wants to admit it's bullshit because then they have to face the facts of their own hypocrisy, unkindness, and duplicity. they have to admit to themselves that the best option--standing up for you--is more difficult and will upset the apple cart, and that they reason they are not doing so is because they like being comfortable. this isn't just your father here, this is your sister, your stepmother, your extended family. and that doesn't make them evil, it makes them human and full of human frailty. but that doesn't mean you have to accept the status quo.
yes! it's like you've always been willing to try to smooth out the 'icky-ness' for everyone elses sake, and they've just let you do it without taking a step back and thinking about how that must feel for you.
I honestly wonder if your finally taking a stand and saying 'I won't accept this anymore' would be suprisingly accepted by your other family members.
I hate this about people, but it is true that people will typically let you shit all over yourself, if you're willing to and it makes their lives easier. (which is the case for your sisters)
It makes sense in casual, or even work enviornments, but family members shouldn't just hold their noses and look away.
Post by MeMyselfandI on Mar 4, 2013 10:02:47 GMT -5
What I don't understand is why is it ok for him to support his wife & her son, but she won't offer him the same respect to support her husband and his daughter? I'm so sorry for your pain Sara. I know I'm just a lurker, but my heart hurts for you.
I am so sorry your father is letting you down here. But I have to wonder what kind of relationship you have with him at this point anyway? Does he call? Participate in your life voluntarily? Visit the boys? I have a hunch at this point you are doing 85% of the heavy lifting in this relationship anyway. Which makes me wonder: What would happen if you just stopped? Stop making the extra effort and let this relationship fade away like a bad friendship you read about on these boards.
Yes. You will miss out on stuff. But what you are missing isn't the "great fun" or these "great bonding times." What you are missing is this brief sensation that you can pretend, for a little while, that everything is peachy keen and you guys are one big happy family. But you're not.
And where are your sisters in this mess? Why are they not having your back?
You are good people, Sara, and I am sorry this is happening to you.
our relationship has been very close. we talk almost daily, and about 80% of the time he is the one to make the call. he does voluntarily participate in both mine and my children's lives. your hunch is wrong about how much he gives. and i can see why you might think like that. and i'm kind of rolling my eyes at myself for feeling defensive over this. i mean, what you wrote makes perfect sense and i could see myself thinking the same thing if i were replying to someone with a post like this. which, i think, is what makes it more hurtful and confusing.
in every other aspect of my life, my dad is there to support me and cheer me on. he has been a place of strength for me to go to when i have been my weakest. he has reminded me that i can conquer the world if i set my mind to it. he has shown an unconditional love and admiration that has inspired me to become a better mom to my children. and this whole thing here...it just blows my mind. and it makes me wonder why he can be so supportive and caring and helpful in every aspect of my life but this one. i cannot recall a time in my life where i have felt so utterly alone, confused, disappointed, sad, mad, sick and full of emotion as i do about this. and its because of the relationship i have with him and not because i feel let down.
and i wish that i could respond to your remark about missing out on family fun and bonding time, but i don't really know what to say. i've never really acknowledged that i have ignored the feelings of anger and resentment and failure that i have toward my dad in the past to say that i could agree. i haven't felt it to be forced or fake when i speak to him or share parts of my life with him. and i guess i don't want to think that those times weren't real because they were.
to me its a no brainer. your child comes first. am i that ridiculous for thinking that?
no. you are not.
i hate that this is where you are, but i feel like now you need to strategize a going-forward plan based upon your dad's proven tragectory of choosing his wife over you. you've been living your life with tactics to survive what is a near-constant re-assault of your emotional well-being. that isn't cutting the mustard anymore. strategy, long-range planning taking into account everyone's history, will help you now. and if some of your family members and their cozy cocoon of "sara can't have been hurt THAT much, i mean, she goes over there and we have christmas and stuff" is the collateral damage, well, so be it.
You're not ridiculous. I'm so sorry, beyond words sorry.
And you know what? I think it's okay for your kids to have a more distant relationship with your dad. I absolutely agree you shouldn't be the facilitator but his loyalty here is so fucked up that I just can't see feeling like he's a good influence overall. I don't know.
I wrote out a big whole thing that got too personal but basically: in my family, you CHOOSE your family. In terms of your relationship with them. We've cut out a whole portion because of how they treated my mother, and we cut out my abusive bastard grandfather, and you know what? We're (my sister and I) better for it. We see that it takes strength and loyalty and trust to keep up relationships. We saw the work involved. And fuck your dad if he isn't willing to do this for you. I think it's okay for your kids to see.
Sisters? I didn't know you have sisters. Do they know about this? Why wouldn't they back you?
i have two. one older, one younger. and yes, they know about it. my stepmom's son tried to mess with my older sister first. she caught him in her room one night as she was sleeping. she woke up as he was trying to kiss her and told him that he better never do that again or she would tell my parents. i didnt know about that until i told her years later what had happened to me.
however, my oldest sister thinks the world of my dad. even more than i do. he is infallible to her. she has always listened to what i have had to say, and then advocated for him. she has let me know that he needs to support his wife and says that this is about her and not about me and that my dad is caught in the middle. i spoke briefly with her over the weekend about it (as i had called her in hysterics after i spoke to my dad with the whole text debacle) and she was very understanding. she said she understood why i would feel so hurt, but that she wasn't even sure if i dad went to the dinner or not. at the time, i told her i didn't care because i didnt want to know.
this past weekend when i told her that he did go and that i was feeling so hurt and angry and betrayed and disgusted she said, again, that it was about his wife. i told her that i saw it differently, and that it is about his daughter. i reiterated what i had said to him about it last year and that i didn't think it was too much to ask of my father. she said that my dad is really broken up over this and i immediately shut her down, telling her that i don't really care what or how he feels. that he made a choice and fuck you for trying to convey through my sister your upset. i told her i don't have respect for my dad and she seemed aghast that i could say that about him. then he started walking up to where we were, so the conversation stopped.
my little sister feels that i have every right to feel the way that i do. she is pretty disgusted that my dad went out for dinner that night. she and her husband both expressed that they were surprised and disappointed.
Again, please get some distance from these people. They are not interested in your feelings or well-being. They are interested in keeping the peace and maintaining this fucked up illusion of a happy family.
(((Hugs))) You've gotten some really good advice so I won't add anything except that you deserve so much better than this and if your Dad can't see that then it's probably time to step back from a relationship with him and take care of yourself.