I'm so sorry, Sara. I didn't mean to hurt you more. You are not ridiculous for wanting to come first or for believing that you should. But I don't think your dad has the capacity to choose between you and his wife. I really think his 'what can I do?' is really a futile expression of him being stuck between a rock and a hard place. I think he wants to choose you but knows that he has to choose his wife. That's what marriage is. Even in this awful, horrific nightmare of what you've been through, this is what marriage is. And you're right. It's not fair. And it never will be. I'm so sorry, I really do have so much love for you and I hate that these wounds keep being opened. I don't want you to think I'm not on your side because I am. But this perspective I'm offering is valid. You can't come first for him because his wife has too. She didn't do these horrific things to you. Her son did. Your dad loves his wife and supports his wife and there's nothing wrong with that. But, it does mean that you have to do things on your part to figure out how you can live with what you've been given. You have to figure out how you can be a whole, healthy person - a wife to your husband and a mother to your children - apart from all of the hurt and anger and disappointment and disgust. You are completely entitled to feel everything you're feeling and to want everything you want. But it's not going to change anything. Please consider returning to therapy. I won't say that I know what you're going through but I will say that I've been betrayed by those who were supposed to protect me and it's taken a very very long time and a lot of therapy to try to understand the relationships that have lasted beyond my betrayal. Please take good care of yourself.
You know what? This is a bunch of bullshit. Marriage isn't choosing to support your spouse in hurting your kids over and over. It isn't condoning your spouse being so ridiculously insensitive to your kids that she talks about your daughter's rapist right in front of her, displays pictures of him where she can see them, and tells your daughter that her kids remind her of her rapist as a youth.
You know what marriage IS? Marriage is both being sensitive enough to accept that yes, your wife loved your daughter's rapist and will need to talk about him when your daughter isn't around, and will need to keep pictures of him somewhere that your daughter will never, ever see them AND being enough of a human being to understand that your son is your husband's beloved daughter's rapist, and that there are feelings around this that need to be tiptoed around. What marriage isn't is this one-way bullshit where the woman who raised a rapist gets all the sensitivity from everyone, and has to give none in return.
Your response has essentially made me out to be a heartless bitch. Thanks. I'm hoping Sara has more sense than that.
I'm not saying that Sara needs to be sensitive to her step-mom. But the fact is that the step-mom is allowed to love and remember the child she gave birth to. And Sara gets to be angry about that. It's fucked up and not fair. But it is reality. Sara can only control herself, not the actions, desires, thoughts, and feelings of others. I don't want to see her to continue to be hurt. But these people are still allowed to live whatever fucked up lives they choose to live. And Sara has to figure out how to deal with that. They aren't going to change. They are going to keep hurting her. Her dad is going to keep failing her. Her step-mom is going to keep expecting her husband to support her.
Your response has essentially made me out to be a heartless bitch. Thanks. I'm hoping Sara has more sense than that.
I'm not saying that Sara needs to be sensitive to her step-mom. But the fact is that the step-mom is allowed to love and remember the child she gave birth to. And Sara gets to be angry about that. It's fucked up and not fair. But it is reality. Sara can only control herself, not the actions, desires, thoughts, and feelings of others. I don't want to see her to continue to be hurt. But these people are still allowed to live whatever fucked up lives they choose to live. And Sara has to figure out how to deal with that. They aren't going to change. They are going to keep hurting her. Her dad is going to keep failing her. Her step-mom is going to keep expecting her husband to support her.
i'm just not sure why you keep saying this in some for or another. i don't think anyone, sara included, doesn't understand the complexity of her stepmother's relationship with her rapist asshole stepbrother. the repetition implies, to me at least, that somehow you think this notion isn't getting through to sara and she needs to understand it for some reason. no, she doesn't. sara doesn't have to waste a nanosecond worrying about the feelings of someone who cares so little about being a typical, caring, normal person. who the fuck cares what her stepmother is and isn't "allowed" to feel? or that--in a normal marriage--the needs and desires of one's spouse are supposed to be paramount?
it is not incumbent upon the abused and maltreated to understand the sources of pain or complexity in the lives of their abusers and maltreaters. in fact, sara's courses of action thus far in her life show me that she has TRIED to understand this in spades, hence years of walking on eggshells around at least two or three people who don't put HER needs/desires/wants/mental health in any position of importance.
I have been reading through all of this and have had to fight back tears, sara.
This hit very, very close to home to me, only in my case, it was my stepfather who abused me, although he, too, is dead, and has been for many years (thankfully).
I actually did not reveal what had happened to me until just a few years ago and I shudder now when I think of the lies I told myself because I didn't want to be his victim and I didn't want to shatter my mom's world.
But shatter it I did because to keep it a secret any longer was killing me inside. It has been so very, very difficult, particularly in those early days when I first revealed the truth to her. Everything she thought she knew about that man, their marriage, crumbled before her very eyes and I think there were a few moments where she resented me for shattering that image of him and their supposed happy life together.
What she came to realize is that I hadn't destroyed that life and love - HE did that - he destroyed my innocence and stole things from me that should only have been given by my consent, as an adult, in a loving relationship (although I am grateful it did not come to rape - at least I was spared that much). I will never know who I COULD have been had this not happened.
And it hurt so much that she didn't instantly realize what a sham of a marriage she had and that her husband was a monster. But once it hit her, really hit her, what he had done, she couldn't be sorrier. Pictures, videos, clothing, more than a decade's worth of mementos that I had had to see every.single.time I came and visited her - gone, tossed out like the trash they were.
She tells me all the time how sorry she is, how she wished I had felt secure enough in her love to tell her years' ago, how sorry she is now that I had to endure the abuse and the cover-up after the fact. She refrains from even mentioning him by name and stepfather is never used as that would be far too kind a title for what he was.
In reading through your father's actions or lack thereof, my heart aches for you. You deserve a father who will be your champion in EVERYTHING - not with an asterisk attached. I posted in the marriage first, kids second, thread previously, indicating there absolutely needs to be a priority placed on the marriage, but also said, I had an exception for when there was a remarriage - the kids that preceded the new marriage need to be as much of, if not more so, a priority than shiny, new spouse.
And with a situation like yours? I'm sorry, but if your stepmother truly loved your father, she would realize where the priority lies and it ain't with her dead son. She can grieve for him and what she wished he would have been, fine, but do it where you don't ever have to see it. Common decency would dictate that at the very least.
And if your father truly loved you in the way you deserve to be loved, he would stand up for you in everything - most especially this - and TELL your stepmother and SHOW you and her by his actions, that in this, she does NOT come first, she will NEVER come first, wife or not. And if he cannot give this to you, then I honestly don't know how you can continue to have a relationship with him.
If my mother had continued to waver and feel sorry for herself after my revelation, I know that I would not have a relationship with her today. I was a victim long enough and I'll be damned if I was going to continue that course in life.
Your father continuing to side with his wife in this is hurtful and wrong and is victimizing you all over again.
The fact that your rapist is DEAD and your father still went to a fucking birthday party FOR HIM....that says everything. He is scum for treating you this way.
Yeah, these bday celebrations are bizarre. I also agree with those who said beings married doesn't mean your spouse automatically comes first, especially when it's something like this. I feel like your stepmom has some romanticized memory of her son.
Yes, this really bothers me as well. Once you have children, they have to come first. ALWAYS. Especially in a situation where your children are being hurt in a horrible way, there is no way picking your spouse over your child is acceptable here.
I'm kind of surprised some people can't see the difference between loving your son unconditionally and missing him in his death, and the idealization that is occurring in this fucked up family.
Photos EVERYwhere and birthday dinners in his memory, where everyone is expected to attend??, are bizarre. I'm sorry, I hate to say that about someone's grief, but especially since if memory serves it's been many years.
Also I have no sympathy for the fucker at all and how the mom has handled everything is beyond appalling, so that's absolutely coloring this, too. But objectively, I think there is a huge difference between "normal" mourning and again, the idealization of this bastard.
Do you think you will be able to cut him out? I didn't read the past several pages, so I am not sure if you said.
i honestly have no idea. i don't think i can cut my dad out of my life completely, no. but i just don't know how i can ever have a relationship with him in the same capacity that i have in the past.
i have not spoken with her about this. i don't think i spoke with her about the whole dinner thing when it happened last year either.
i do know that she is very sad and devastated over what happened. and very angry at the way my dad has dealt with things regarding this in the past.
i kind of don't want to talk to her about it because i don't want her to call my dad about it. and even if i ask her not to, i'm not sure that she could or would follow through on that.
i have not spoken with her about this. i don't think i spoke with her about the whole dinner thing when it happened last year either.
i do know that she is very sad and devastated over what happened. and very angry at the way my dad has dealt with things regarding this in the past.
i kind of don't want to talk to her about it because i don't want her to call my dad about it. and even if i ask her not to, i'm not sure that she could or would follow through on that.
Why don't you want her to call your dad? Isn't having a parent 100% in your corner and fighting this fuckery a good thing?
Post by ProfessorArtNerd on Mar 4, 2013 17:10:38 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this all day. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. Everything is all fucked up. I'm sorry he continues to fuck up your life
I've thought about this a lot, and as a soon to be parent, I don't know how I'll handle it if my child grows up to do something so horrible to someone else's. It's just too awful to imagine that someone I raise could turn into a monster.
And it's that same inability to imagine/comprehend that makes me wonder how your father can participate in the charade of "we've lost a wonderful man and need to remember him" knowing what this person did to his daughter.
I guess, yeah it's her son who she carriede/birthed/raised and she wants to remember him. But that person is the person who hurt my child who I cared for from the time they were a helpless infant and NO I could not sleep in a room with a shine set up to her rapist or celebrate his life or miss him in death or mark his birthday every year.
I would think that if she had to cling to his happy memory and talk about him in glowing terms that I would have to leave that marriage because of my love for my child.
Like another poster's mother - once I know, how can I have a happy fulfilling marriage?
I'm sorry Sara that you went through that and that it continues to impact you in this way.
I wish I could think of something that would help you
Post by underwaterrhymes on Mar 4, 2013 17:31:45 GMT -5
I want to hug you. I am so sorry you went through this and I'm so sorry that your father's actions indicate that he values your rapist over you.
For what it's worth, I don't think this is his intention, but that doesn't matter because you have expressed to him how painful this is for you and he is still choosing to perpetuate the behavior. He's choosing to embrace someone who hurt his daughter repeatedly and I know that has to feel like a betrayal of the worst kind because this is someone you love and trust.
You do not owe your father anything. You can love him, but you can also distance yourself from him. Whatever you need to do is okay.
I'm going to PM you my phone number through Facebook. If you ever need to just talk, I'm a good listener.
sara, I am so, so sorry. I hate that this is even a part of your life. I know how much you love your dad, but you deserve a father who not only loves you back but also supports and protects you. Perhaps distancing yourself from him will finally open his eyes to the fact that he is risking losing his own daughter in order to protect his relationship with his wife. I honestly don't know how any father could stand for it. Hugs, hugs, hugs.
Sara, I know you have spoken calmly about it with your father and politely asked your stepmother to take a photo down. Have you ever lost your shit with them and gone on a "fuck you and the horse you assholes rode in on, you didn't protect me then, so fuck you for ripping this wound wide open every fucking year by continuing to choose him over me" type rant"? Because it might not fix things, but I would think that it would feel really good. Preferably do it in their house, and accidentally break and then stomp on a few pictures while you are at it.
Ok, I know, I know. But I would like to do this right now for you, it would make me feel much better about the rage I feel in this post.
You know what? This is a bunch of bullshit. Marriage isn't choosing to support your spouse in hurting your kids over and over. It isn't condoning your spouse being so ridiculously insensitive to your kids that she talks about your daughter's rapist right in front of her, displays pictures of him where she can see them, and tells your daughter that her kids remind her of her rapist as a youth.
You know what marriage IS? Marriage is both being sensitive enough to accept that yes, your wife loved your daughter's rapist and will need to talk about him when your daughter isn't around, and will need to keep pictures of him somewhere that your daughter will never, ever see them AND being enough of a human being to understand that your son is your husband's beloved daughter's rapist, and that there are feelings around this that need to be tiptoed around. What marriage isn't is this one-way bullshit where the woman who raised a rapist gets all the sensitivity from everyone, and has to give none in return.
Your response has essentially made me out to be a heartless bitch. Thanks. I'm hoping Sara has more sense than that.
I'm not saying that Sara needs to be sensitive to her step-mom. But the fact is that the step-mom is allowed to love and remember the child she gave birth to. And Sara gets to be angry about that. It's fucked up and not fair. But it is reality. Sara can only control herself, not the actions, desires, thoughts, and feelings of others. I don't want to see her to continue to be hurt. But these people are still allowed to live whatever fucked up lives they choose to live. And Sara has to figure out how to deal with that. They aren't going to change. They are going to keep hurting her. Her dad is going to keep failing her. Her step-mom is going to keep expecting her husband to support her.
eh...i do feel like you have an expectation that i am to accept that this is how marriage is. and that it isn't about me, as a person or a daughter, but about supporting your wife. but i am used to hearing that, so maybe i am a bit desensitized.
however, what i think you fail to understand, is that at the end of the day i am left to shoulder the burden of thee past while my stepmom can act as though it never happened and my dad can appease his wife and not really have to deal with it either. and at the end of it all my dad will continue to attend celebrations in honor of the person that raped his daughter. in her room. at the age of 10 and 11.
by not standing up to his wife, he is silently validating each and every time his wife's son snuck into my room and masturbated at the edge of my bed while he fondled me. he is allowing the physical and emotional pain i felt and continue to feel from being forced to have sex when i was barely old enough to have my period silently be understood. by not standing up to her, he is saying that i do not matter. he is saying that the life of the person that did this is something that deserves to be remembered, even after his death.
and by doing this, he is most certainly not showing me the definition of marriage.
Sara, I know you have spoken calmly about it with your father and politely asked your stepmother to take a photo down. Have you ever lost your shit with them and gone on a "fuck you and the horse you assholes rode in on, you didn't protect me then, so fuck you for ripping this wound wide open every fucking year by continuing to choose him over me" type rant"? Because it might not fix things, but I would think that it would feel really good. Preferably do it in their house, and accidentally break and then stomp on a few pictures while you are at it.
Ok, I know, I know. But I would like to do this right now for you, it would make me feel much better about the rage I feel in this post.
No, you know, I actually think this is a good idea. IMO no one takes your feelings into account because there aren't really any uncomfortable consequences for them if they don't. Avoiding unpleasantness shouldn't need to be a motivator, but I suspect it's a large motivator in why your dad and sister are sweeping it under the rug.
I'm just realizing he is dead. What a complex situation. Can I ask how he died?
he shot himself in the head.
the last nine months or so of his life were a downward spiral. he was diagnosed with mental disorders and did a bunch of fucked up shit. and then he shot himself right between the eyes.
the death certificate says the date of death (determined by rigormorits or whatever shit) was the day after my birthday, but my stepmom swears it was on my birthday because while she was at my high school graduation that night she had such a splitting headache that she had to leave the ceremony and she never gets headaches and she swears it was because of what happened to him. i can't even roll my eyes fucking hard enough.
i have not spoken with her about this. i don't think i spoke with her about the whole dinner thing when it happened last year either.
i do know that she is very sad and devastated over what happened. and very angry at the way my dad has dealt with things regarding this in the past.
i kind of don't want to talk to her about it because i don't want her to call my dad about it. and even if i ask her not to, i'm not sure that she could or would follow through on that.
Why don't you want her to call your dad? Isn't having a parent 100% in your corner and fighting this fuckery a good thing?
it is. but my mom has a tendency to lose her cool and fumble words and i feel like she might just make it a mess.
I'm with kristie and kuus on the rage thing. I'm the type of person that would carry a can of spray paint in my purse and tag the word "rapist" on any photos that the cunt of a step-mom had up in her house.
I realize over the top violent responses aren't for everyone, though.
Post by underwaterrhymes on Mar 4, 2013 17:49:18 GMT -5
I also want to say that it's so complicated because you clearly love your dad and you know that he loves you and you have had - in every other respect - a strong relationship with him.
That makes it, if anything, even harder that he can't give you this one so very important thing.
It is unfair. It does suck. It's fucking heartbreaking. And it's okay to feel all of those things and to still love your dad and to not understand how he can show you love in other ways and not in this one.
I am more worked up about this than I should be. I also think your dad needs to hear in graphic detail and not glossed over terms what was done to you. He needs to hear it so often and so bluntly that he can't look at that picture in his room without picturing it. They don't get to act like this never happened, and fuck them for thinking they get to have it that easy.
Oh Sara. Internet hugs don't cut it; I know, but So Much vicarious hugs. I can't even begin to imagine the awfulness... But look at you: AWESOME Mom/ Fabulous woman!! You are amazingly incredible for overcoming that horror, and continuing to lead a pretty great life.
I know it doesn't @ all help, but just have to add: the conflict that it's causing even in this thread are quite reflective of the complexity of this situation. Therefore, you Must do what's best for YOU!!! Cut him out as much as you can/ only be around him in large crowds, (rare?) family gtg's, etc. If you see yourself still struggling to grapple with things, maybe try to cut him out? After some time off, maybe you can sloowwly try to re-introduce a paternal relationship w/ your dad. Maybe you need to cut stepmom (ahem stepmonster) out? There's no one that can tell you what your next move should be. So maybe trial & error is the only way you'll be able to figure out what YOU can deal with. Again, so many hugs.
There are some people here who probably have a better heart then I do. I think that I would expect my father to shot the m-effer and then divorce his wife. You deserve much better. Much better then this. And yes, his mother has a right to celebrate the m-effer life if she chooses or have pictures of him in her home. But your father should not be taking part in this. And since they share home there should be no pictures of him. She wants pictures she needs to get her own home... I am angry for you... I am so sorry for all your pain...
I'm just realizing he is dead. What a complex situation. Can I ask how he died?
he shot himself in the head.
the last nine months or so of his life were a downward spiral. he was diagnosed with mental disorders and did a bunch of fucked up shit. and then he shot himself right between the eyes.
the death certificate says the date of death (determined by rigormorits or whatever shit) was the day after my birthday, but my stepmom swears it was on my birthday because while she was at my high school graduation that night she had such a splitting headache that she had to leave the ceremony and she never gets headaches and she swears it was because of what happened to him. i can't even roll my eyes fucking hard enough.
Of all the things to feel angry about, this just completely infuriates me. After all that was taken from you, that she would take your fucking birthday away from you in this way makes her a monster. While I can understand loving your child who grows up to do terrible things, I cannot understand continuing to perpetuate those terrible things yourself. The fact that she has told this story to anyone is horrific; the fact that you have to walk around having heard it is unforgivable.
Sara- I'm so so sorry about what happened and is happening to you. I have no advise that hasn't been shared already.
I'm sorry if I am out of line for asking this: Does your step mom blame you somehow for her sons death? Why is she fixated on saying he died on YOUR Bday?
Someone can have a million awesome qualities and one relationship altering/ending shitty one. It sucks.
Sara, I know you have spoken calmly about it with your father and politely asked your stepmother to take a photo down. Have you ever lost your shit with them and gone on a "fuck you and the horse you assholes rode in on, you didn't protect me then, so fuck you for ripping this wound wide open every fucking year by continuing to choose him over me" type rant"? Because it might not fix things, but I would think that it would feel really good. Preferably do it in their house, and accidentally break and then stomp on a few pictures while you are at it.
Ok, I know, I know. But I would like to do this right now for you, it would make me feel much better about the rage I feel in this post.
No, you know, I actually think this is a good idea. IMO no one takes your feelings into account because there aren't really any uncomfortable consequences for them if they don't. Avoiding unpleasantness shouldn't need to be a motivator, but I suspect it's a large motivator in why your dad and sister are sweeping it under the rug.
I agree with this. I think they want it to go away and do not want to face the unpleasant reality of what happened to you.
Sara- I'm so so sorry about what happened and is happening to you. I have no advise that hasn't been shared already.
I'm sorry if I am out of line for asking this: Does your step mom blame you somehow for her sons death? Why is she fixated on saying he died on YOUR Bday?
Someone can have a million awesome qualities and one relationship altering/ending shitty one. It sucks.
oh, i'm sure there is blame somewhere. i'm not sure of it since i've never been told, but i would imagine there is.
i have never really had a conversation about what happened. when my dad first told her about it she came outside crying when i pulled up in the driveway after work. she was crying and hugged me and said she was sorry and the very next thing she said was 'this must mean that (nameofpigfuckerhere) was molested too."
why would she say that? because she was raped by her dad for years and she figured that her son was messed with too.
Omg Sara, my heart is breaking for you. How have you been able to have some semblance of a relationship with this woman who so blatantly sets your feelings and value aside?