Another question about Marriage

[missbetty1]

Okay so I've been reading that book Committed and so far it has made me feel even more convinced about not wanting to get married. I can really see myself in a long term committed relationship without all of the complicated stuff that goes along with marriage. Instead of a wedding/marriage I would totally be okay with doing a commitment ceremony...BUT I have a question. For those of you that have experience with LTR without the legality of marriage ( maybe a close friend, or relative, of even yourself) how do you deal with major life crisis when you aren't "married" to your SO?...Is there something you can do as a couple like power of attorney to avoid having NO say if something happens to your partner?

[starburst604]

My dad and his gf of 15+years have designated each other as health care proxy, so they can make medical decisions for one another in the event that one of them can't. They also own a home together and have a legal document that spells out what will happen should one of them pass away. I would imagine they both have a will also.

[doriswe]

POA-HC allows you to name your SO (or someone else) to make medical decisions for you. You'd have to have a POA-Finance in place for them to manage your finances, if you weren't able to. Thing is that doesn't always cover the "stuff" that you accumulate as a couple, and each state looks at things a little differently. Some hospitals only allow "family" in to visit.

POA-HC/F can be challenged and trumped with guardianship, so if family wasn't okay with who you named as your POA-HC/F, they could contest it in court (with proof that a change should take place).

I guess I don't quite understand if you don't want to be married or have a wedding, why you would need the formality of a commitment ceremony to declare your intentions?

[turtle1120]

Aug 6, 2012 14:26:36 GMT -5 doriswe said:

POA-HC allows you to name your SO (or someone else) to make medical decisions for you. You'd have to have a POA-Finance in place for them to manage your finances, if you weren't able to. Thing is that doesn't always cover the "stuff" that you accumulate as a couple, and each state looks at things a little differently. Some hospitals only allow "family" in to visit.

POA-HC/F can be challenged and trumped with guardianship, so if family wasn't okay with who you named as your POA-HC/F, they could contest it in court (with proof that a change should take place).

I guess I don't quite understand if you don't want to be married or have a wedding, why you would need the formality of a commitment ceremony to declare your intentions?

This. Or why you want all of the benefits and protections of being married without legally being married?

[dakotadangerdog]

Yeah I don't get it. What is it exactly about marriage that you don't like?

[missbetty1]

Thanks Ladies...that was helpful!
@ Doriswe-I would like to do a committment ceremony to show my partner, family and friends that our relationship is not a "long term joke" that we are serious and committed to each other even though we don't agree with all of the aspects of a govermental marriage. I would also like to have a party to celebrate ;D so I just said "instead having a wedding..." because it's wouldn't be a "wedding" because at the end of the celebration we wouldn't be married, kwim?

[missbetty1]

Aug 6, 2012 14:29:56 GMT -5 turtle1120 said:

Aug 6, 2012 14:26:36 GMT -5 doriswe said:

POA-HC allows you to name your SO (or someone else) to make medical decisions for you. You'd have to have a POA-Finance in place for them to manage your finances, if you weren't able to. Thing is that doesn't always cover the "stuff" that you accumulate as a couple, and each state looks at things a little differently. Some hospitals only allow "family" in to visit.

POA-HC/F can be challenged and trumped with guardianship, so if family wasn't okay with who you named as your POA-HC/F, they could contest it in court (with proof that a change should take place).

I guess I don't quite understand if you don't want to be married or have a wedding, why you would need the formality of a commitment ceremony to declare your intentions?

This. Or why you want all of the benefits and protections of being married without legally being married?

Because I really don't agree with the "nonbenefits" of being married...

[dakotadangerdog]

Aug 6, 2012 14:37:23 GMT -5 @missbetty1 said:

Aug 6, 2012 14:29:56 GMT -5 turtle1120 said:

This. Or why you want all of the benefits and protections of being married without legally being married?

Because I really don't agree with the "nonbenefits" of being married...

WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN??

[missbetty1]

Aug 6, 2012 14:31:17 GMT -5 dakotadangerdog said:

Yeah I don't get it. What is it exactly about marriage that you don't like?

All the negatives that come along with marriage especially if it fails, and we all know that the majority of marriages fail....

[doriswe]

I still don't get it. People who are confident in their commitments don't need to have a ceremony to declare it, kwim? The people I know who have been in long term committed relationships haven't ever had to say "hey, look guys, we're serious about this, let's have some cake". If you're cool with not getting married, and there is nothing wrong with that, then just be in a relationship, no muss/no fuss. If you want the presentation to declare it's real, get married and have the legal aspects you are desiring.

[doriswe]

Aug 6, 2012 14:38:48 GMT -5 @missbetty1 said:

Aug 6, 2012 14:31:17 GMT -5 dakotadangerdog said:

Yeah I don't get it. What is it exactly about marriage that you don't like?

All the negatives that come along with marriage especially if it fails, and we all know that the majority of marriages fail....

So there are no relationships that are "committed" that fail?? I think your logic is a little off

[missbetty1]

Aug 6, 2012 14:38:29 GMT -5 dakotadangerdog said:

Aug 6, 2012 14:37:23 GMT -5 @missbetty1 said:

Because I really don't agree with the "nonbenefits" of being married...

WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN??

I suggest you read that book Committed to understand a little better where I'm coming from...the author is much better at explaining it than I am lol

[missbetty1]

Aug 6, 2012 14:40:33 GMT -5 doriswe said:

Aug 6, 2012 14:38:48 GMT -5 @missbetty1 said:

All the negatives that come along with marriage especially if it fails, and we all know that the majority of marriages fail....

So there are no relationships that are "committed" that fail?? I think your logic is a little off

No that's not what I'm saying..they do fail but the legal repercussions are not as extreme as a "divorce"...

[dakotadangerdog]

I'm not going to read a book to better understand a random post on a message board lol.

Either your relationship will fail, or it won't. Whether you are married or have some alternative legal commitment, there is no difference.

Is it the divorce process that bothers you? Is your state a PITA?

[missbetty1]

Aug 6, 2012 14:39:41 GMT -5 doriswe said:

I still don't get it. People who are confident in their commitments don't need to have a ceremony to declare it, kwim? The people I know who have been in long term committed relationships haven't ever had to say "hey, look guys, we're serious about this, let's have some cake". If you're cool with not getting married, and there is nothing wrong with that, then just be in a relationship, no muss/no fuss. If you want the presentation to declare it's real, get married and have the legal aspects you are desiring.

Right, I know that some people don't want do the ceremony...but I do...that's the beauty of it you can do what YOU want because it is YOUR relationship, kwim?

[dakotadangerdog]

So basically you just want to have a party?

[missbetty1]

Aug 6, 2012 14:42:06 GMT -5 @redvelvet29 said:

Have you finished the book yet?

No...why? Should I have finished reading it before I posted this? lol

[missbetty1]

Aug 6, 2012 14:44:34 GMT -5 dakotadangerdog said:

I'm not going to read a book to better understand a random post on a message board lol.

Either your relationship will fail, or it won't. Whether you are married or have some alternative legal commitment, there is no difference.

Is it the divorce process that bothers you? Is your state a PITA?

It's the "non benefits" of marriage that bother me...

[formerlyak]

What I see here is that you want the party, you want to make a promise to each other and you want all the legal benefits of being married. But you don't want to call it marriage or make it legal just in case it fails? Then what is the point of publicly declaring it? Also, you say you want people to know you are serious and that it isn't a "long term joke" but I would think that more people would question you having this commitment ceremony and party than simply being in a long term relationship.

Finally, you say that a "majority" of marriages fail. I think your stat is a bit off. Isn't the current number 50%? That's not a majority.

[missbetty1]

Aug 6, 2012 14:45:30 GMT -5 dakotadangerdog said:

So basically you just want to have a party?

I want to celebrate my committmentt to my SO...would you ask someone getting married having a wedding the same question?

[doriswe]

Aug 6, 2012 14:44:44 GMT -5 @missbetty1 said:

Aug 6, 2012 14:39:41 GMT -5 doriswe said:

I still don't get it. People who are confident in their commitments don't need to have a ceremony to declare it, kwim? The people I know who have been in long term committed relationships haven't ever had to say "hey, look guys, we're serious about this, let's have some cake". If you're cool with not getting married, and there is nothing wrong with that, then just be in a relationship, no muss/no fuss. If you want the presentation to declare it's real, get married and have the legal aspects you are desiring.

Right, I know that some people don't want do the ceremony...but I do...that's the beauty of it you can do what YOU want because it is YOUR relationship, kwim?

I get it, I do....and it's obviously not my thing.

I will also throw in that the only commitment ceremonies I've ever been invited to have been for gay couples.

[missbetty1]

Aug 6, 2012 14:47:34 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

What I see here is that you want the party, you want to make a promise to each other and you want all the legal benefits of being married. But you don't want to call it marriage or make it legal just in case it fails? Then what is the point of publicly declaring it? Also, you say you want people to know you are serious and that it isn't a "long term joke" but I would think that more people would question you having this commitment ceremony and party than simply being in a long term relationship.

Finally, you say that a "majority" of marriages fail. I think your stat is a bit off. Isn't the current number 50%? That's not a majority.

Would you go to a surgeon if 50%of his surgeries were successful?

[formerlyak]

Also, if you draw up papers to have POA and all that stuff that legally married couples have because they are married and then you split, you have to go through dissolving all of those agreements one by one to go back to the state you were in before the papers were drawn up. On the flip side, if you are married and divorce, some of those things automatically go away (i.e. health decision making) by nature of you now being divorced.

Sounds like a lot less of a hassle.

[doriswe]

So just because I'm all sorts of curious, at what point do you know you're committed enough to have said ceremony? How do you know when it's serious enough to make the declaration?

[blackkitty]

this post is weird and oddly amusing

[formerlyak]

Aug 6, 2012 14:49:51 GMT -5 @missbetty1 said:

Aug 6, 2012 14:47:34 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

What I see here is that you want the party, you want to make a promise to each other and you want all the legal benefits of being married. But you don't want to call it marriage or make it legal just in case it fails? Then what is the point of publicly declaring it? Also, you say you want people to know you are serious and that it isn't a "long term joke" but I would think that more people would question you having this commitment ceremony and party than simply being in a long term relationship.

Finally, you say that a "majority" of marriages fail. I think your stat is a bit off. Isn't the current number 50%? That's not a majority.

Would you go to a surgeon if 50%of his surgeries were successful?

This isn't really a good comparison, because it depends on what the surgery was for. If it was a very hard surgery and 50% success rate was good for that surgery, then yes I would.

[missbetty1]

Aug 6, 2012 14:52:03 GMT -5 @blackkitty said:

this post is weird and oddly amusing

LOL...I'm just "thinking" about my options if I ever get to that point with someone...

[Deleted]

But with all the legal documents, a break up would be just as messy, if not more so than a divorce. You'd have to go through and redo all your docs. Then you'd still have what sounds like joint assets to deal with and you want a ceremony. Literally nothing about this is different than a marriage except you're making it WAY more complicated and honestly sounds messier to deal with than a divorce.

Why not have a solid prenup and call it a day?

[missbetty1]

Aug 6, 2012 14:51:42 GMT -5 doriswe said:

So just because I'm all sorts of curious, at what point do you know you're committed enough to have said ceremony? How do you know when it's serious enough to make the declaration?

I don't have a timeframe in mind..I guess when me and my SO felt it was right...

[Deleted]

Aug 6, 2012 14:50:50 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

Also, if you draw up papers to have POA and all that stuff that legally married couples have because they are married and then you split, you have to go through dissolving all of those agreements one by one to go back to the state you were in before the papers were drawn up. On the flip side, if you are married and divorce, some of those things automatically go away (i.e. health decision making) by nature of you now being divorced.

Sounds like a lot less of a hassle.

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